Episode 10: Traditions....wait, nevermind!

[00:00:01] Four parents, nine kids, two houses, didn't really want to talk about this. Four parents, nine kids, I'm queer, one thing's clear, there's no dysfunction here. Four parents, nine kids, two houses, didn't really want kids, I'm queer, one thing's clear, there's no dysfunction.

[00:00:31] Yeah. Anyway, how's it going guys? Haven't seen you guys in a minute. Yeah, it's been a minute for sure. Happy New Year! Happy New Year! That's the last time we hung out is New Year's Eve, I think. That's it? Wow, yeah. That's crazy. It was a good time. AJ and I love our New Year's traditions. You know, speaking of traditions, that's what we're talking about today! Traditions! I'm singing that a lot. Traditions!

[00:00:59] You should try If I Were a Rich Man, because then we could, you know, get there, let's go! We like our New Year's tradition of dance, we like to just like dance on New Year's, like we just like make a club out of our house and turn on our little, really low budget, strobe light situations and drink our champagne and dance. There were, for a couple years there, we were doing like 90s hits from like 1am to 3am. I was on it.

[00:01:26] The kids all left and we were just belting out 90s ballads. Yeah, they're like, you guys are old and weird now. That's fun. And gingerbread houses! Yeah! Yay! And Mason always comes. Mason's never missed a year. I mean, Anna, Jonah, most of the kids have never missed a year. He's committed. He's committed. Yeah! So, along those lines, that's what we were thinking we would talk about today.

[00:01:51] Is not just traditions, but maybe all the things that we do to stay connected as a family. You know, our family is four parents, nine kids, two houses, and a whole shit ton of dogs.

[00:02:08] And, um, and because of a lot of the difficult things that have happened in our family, I feel like we have more of a motivation maybe to really stay together, stay connected, stay supportive of each other, looking out for each other.

[00:02:24] I feel like, because of everything we've been through, we're maybe more motivated to really be intentional about connecting with one another and helping and supporting and, and, you know, kind of doing life together as a unit, as a family. And so, I think we all kind of thought maybe it would be helpful for others, you know.

[00:02:46] One of the deepest desires for me with this podcast is to help others come to the same conclusions that we came through with serious tragedy in our family. It's really important to me that I share my heart and the things that I've learned so that maybe, hopefully, other families can find that same peace and joy with each other without having to experience tragedy to find it.

[00:03:17] I like that. I absolutely agree. And just having that camaraderie as a family, um, there is a couple that comes up to our restaurant, restaurant quite frequently. And she is going to be 73 or 74. She's incredibly fun and exciting. But anyway, she listens to no dysfunction here and she watches us. And when she sees Jake and I, she gets very excited.

[00:03:43] And she said right from the beginning, like when her and her husband got a divorce and they met other people from the get-go, it was like, we are still going to have holidays together. We are still going to do birthdays as a family. And that was 45 years ago. That is so impressive. Yes. And she's like, it's not even that hard. And you guys do it. Like, why don't other families do it?

[00:04:07] So it made my heart happy for someone that did that when I was born 45 years ago and is excited to hear how our lives are impacting one another. So I think it's great. Totally. That's so impressive. What a badass woman. I know. She's a baddie. She's like a radical back then. That's great. Yeah. And it really is crazy. 45 years ago. That's nuts.

[00:04:32] Like, I remember growing up and, you know, divorces happen, life happens, whatever, and so many friends and neighbors and whatnot. And I don't remember literally one single example of people working together to get along. It was always. And so that's your example. That's what you learn, you know? And I think there's an aspect of it, too, that maybe like religiously, different religions have effects on, you know, what marriage is and divorce is and like what's acceptable and what's not.

[00:05:01] So that adds a lot to it, too. And that was definitely the case for many of us growing up, I'm sure. And so for me, I had to learn it after meeting you guys, you know, because I got divorced and where I came from and who I divorced, that was the sentiment, you know? It's like it was so bad that like when I got divorced, I literally just assumed and no one told me otherwise. No one gave me advice. No one said anything.

[00:05:31] I just assumed like, well, I can't see myself in this marriage anymore. And so I guess for me that means I just don't have as much time with my kids. I don't have as much, not leeway, as much influence, as much whatever, you know? Like I guess I just get to see them every other weekend and on Wednesday nights, you know?

[00:05:55] And it wasn't until a few years after that I was divorced that I started being like, okay, I have more, you know, like to do here and more that I can do. And it's my right to and it's what I want to do to like be a parent to these children, you know? And so I'm really grateful because a huge part of that catalyst was just, you know, meeting the both of you and learning that there's a different way to do it. It's helped a lot. Yay! Friendship!

[00:06:25] High fives. Yeah, it's if you don't have your eye on the ball to not be looking out for number one and just be protecting yourself in a situation like divorce, like it's, I mean, it's just, it's natural to just want to be protecting yourself. Yeah.

[00:06:47] Like it's, I don't know, I feel like for everybody, regardless of their age or, you know, experience in this situation, it's got to be learned. Everybody's got to learn it because naturally we just want to close up and take care of ourselves and take care of our kids. Kids, but. We're all humans at the end of the day. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:07:15] It's a real thing and it involves work. It involves recognizing and awareness around, okay, these are my tendencies or this is what I'm trying to protect or I'm worried about being hurt again or feeling this or whatever it is. And you actively have to work to be outside of yourself in order to create love and harmony with relationships and with your family still and everything.

[00:07:39] Because, you know, nobody enjoys divorce and nobody plans on that when you meet someone and whatnot. And so you don't spend a lot of time preparing yourself for what the fallout of it all is, you know. And having gone through it, all of us, I think that we all offer a different, unique perspective on what it is. And I appreciate all three of yours. Oh, I appreciate you guys too. Thank you.

[00:08:08] I think about the pain of divorce and, you know, it's like almost like the pain of childbirth where you forget. Yeah. But then you see someone going through it and you're like, oh, girl, I feel for you, you know. And what Jake is saying about that want or need to just feel like you need to protect is so real.

[00:08:30] And that's why I think it's extremely important when somebody starts to go down the path of separation or divorce that they're very intentional about creating a support system for themselves with a lot of communication. Like, this is hard. I need support kind of thing, you know. And even if it's getting online and finding meetup groups, support groups, divorce support groups, whatever, because you have to, if you really want to navigate this in the way that is most beneficial for your children,

[00:08:59] I feel like you actually have to allow other people to hold some of that for you so that you can show up for your children in a healthy way and show up for co-parenting in a healthy way because no longer can you dump your emotional pain on your spouse. Your spouse is no longer your spouse.

[00:09:21] And if you do not dump that on something, if you don't process and allow yourself to feel all of that in a safe container with somebody who cares, then it's going to come out in toxic ways because that energy, that grief, that pain, that anger, that rage, that rejection, that failure is all there. It must be dealt with.

[00:09:46] And so often we have decided as a society that it's okay to deal with it by putting that all toward our ex. You, asshole, you destroyed me, you know. And what we have to realize is that so much of that is what we can take and really turn into how can I learn from this? How can I grow from this? How can I be better in my next relationship?

[00:10:15] Where can, you know, and, but it must be supported. And so, I don't know, I just, I think so much of the time in this world with social media and isolation and COVID, it's just like, we gotta connect with each other and hold space for each other, you know, and really have compassion when we see somebody going through this. Because it's fucking hard. It's really hard.

[00:10:42] And then, if they're well supported, then they can show up for their co-parenting and be like, I left, I raged over here so that I can show up regulated right here. Here. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, too, that we talk all day long until we're blue in the face about, like, romantic relationships and how important communication is and how placing blame and fault and all these things are not helpful and don't grow.

[00:11:09] And usually it's not black and white, it's some gray area in the middle. But when it comes to a divorce, there's so much, with a romantic relationship, that pain is eased by we're here together and we're working on it and we're trying, you know? But in divorce, it's like, you're not here anymore for me. We're not working on it. We're not trying. So, fuck you, you know? You know?

[00:11:34] It's like, and so you have to, and it's kind of along the lines of what you were saying, Jake, where it's like you're protecting yourself, you know? Yeah, but especially when kids are involved, you just, you have to get past that. And if you can do it instantly and immediately, even though it's difficult and it's painful and you'll run into things, there is so much long-term reward for healthiness and happiness of everyone.

[00:12:01] Even, you know, not just kids, but the two people who are working together when they don't want to and letting go of the hard feelings and learning to appreciate the other person for what they're good at and what they provide that I can't or whatever it might be, you know?

[00:12:16] That is something that actually, recently, I have experienced in my own divorce by speaking with one of, you know, my biological children about the situation and their mom is that I was able in a situation and very organically and authentically to say, like, I love that. I love that your mom's doing that. I love that about your mom.

[00:12:41] I love that, you know, and it's been a long time coming to, like, get to that place. But it's important, you know, like, to have an ego around it that's like, you're always wrong and I'm always right. It just hurts your kids. What are you doing, you know? And so, yeah, I see the value in that for sure. I love that we were going to talk about traditions. I know. Let's rename this episode Traditions? Question mark. Never mind. That's the new name of the episode. Got it.

[00:13:12] But that's us. We just talk about whatever we talk about. I was thinking about what Toby was saying about having a support system. Like, in a divorce situation, when, you know, you split up. Say both people are, like, excellent parents, excellent mom, excellent dad. I mean, who in that situation is going to want to give up their kids half the time? Yeah. It's ripping your heart out half the time.

[00:13:41] Nobody wants to do that. So, a great mom is going to want full custody. A great dad is going to want full custody. And in the middle of a divorce, it's not the time to believe in yourself that you're thinking rationally. Like, because you're all hopped up in the negativity of the relationship. And, I don't know, where I'm going with this is, I feel like in that support system, you have to pick someone.

[00:14:10] I think it's a good idea to pick someone that is, you know they're wise, you know they're intelligent, and you know that they are going to be unbiased. Like, they love both of you. Yeah. Very important. Very. That's such a good point. Because what do we do in any breakup? Like, people run into their corners and pick sides and whatever. And if you can find somebody who's like that, I mean, what a gift, you know? Like, that's so great.

[00:14:36] And I, that's like the best thing you could have is someone who loves you and loves the other person and is willing to tell you hard things. Right. Yeah, that's great. It just brought me back to the mediation room with you, Jake, and feeling like there was no possible way that I was going to give up full custody. No way, you know? I was like, absolutely not. I hadn't even considered it.

[00:15:03] I had not even considered that I would not be with my babies 100% of the time. Like, you know? It just hadn't even, I was like, no, you can have visitation. And how unfair and narcissistic and all the things, I mean, you know, but it really was just fear. And I just needed my babies, you know? And wanted to protect them and be with them.

[00:15:30] But I, when you talk about that, I feel it so deeply. Like, I remember feeling like, how? How? And those first nights away without my babies, you know? When they were at your house, to think about those times, it was just absolutely brutal. And then when they come back and they miss their dad and they're crying at night for their dad. I mean, these things, we really need to have reverence for the people who are truly going through this. For the children, for the parents, you know?

[00:16:02] And I just have such compassion for anyone who's really going through this with children. It's really, really, really hard. And I do think we can talk about traditions and whatnot. But it's like, really, the step before traditions is really just learning to open to one another in a new way. And that is fucking tricky. And that's a whole episode, too, you know? Yeah, because as a married couple, you had traditions.

[00:16:32] You had your norm. And now you're separated. And now they're all triggers. Yeah. And you're like, I don't even want to look across the table. Like, it's extremely difficult. And then you move on. Where's her stocking? I burned it. Why? Did you want it? Well, yeah. I figured since we were divorced, we'd burn them. Is there another rug? That wasn't part of your ritual? Yeah. What were you doing on Tuesday night? It was part of my horse party. We burned the stocking.

[00:17:01] I assumed you were doing the same. We should learn to communicate better. I couldn't burn mine because I wasn't allowed to have it. I'm like, I'll keep your stocking. Okay, the Christmas stockings matter. Talking about the holidays. It's all so difficult.

[00:17:25] And that first year is fucking brutal to navigate it all and to split the holidays or combine the holidays. And what are we? And then the in-laws who hate you. God damn. Like, Jesus. Well, I mean, that's such an interesting part of it, too. It's like, you know, I think more and more couples are understanding that work together immediately part to make sure everybody's okay and it's good.

[00:17:53] But, you know, the route we all went or a lot of us went, you know, like, we struggled and then we've figured some things out. There's always struggles figuring things out back and forth. But then, like, I think even all of us have experienced where, like, we're more of, like, a together family and feeling close and working. We've worked through hard things and we'll continue to work through hard things as they come up. But all of the people that were on our team and whatever, you know, they're like, oh, you guys are all fun. You know, whatever. They're like, wait, what?

[00:18:22] I thought you were enemies. Yeah, that's right. And so it's like, it does create awkward whatever, you know. And so it's like, well, no, it's just this is life, you know. We're figuring it out. We're trying. And I love, because I'm about to do Donald Trump's weave and tie this all together. But the. It's going to be huge. It's going to be the most terrific weave you've ever seen. Best weave. I didn't know Donald Trump was weaving anything. Either did I. So I'm learning something new again from AJ.

[00:18:49] When they gave him a hard time about how he rambles at his things or whatever. But it all comes together. And he's like, it's called the weave. He's like, I take these 12 different stories. And he said he was a genius for doing it. We all know. It's good. But. I was picturing hair. Yeah. They do. I'm like, Donald Trump at the weave? I should explain it. I forgot. Like, is it? No, yes. I forgot that Jake is very good at keeping himself away from political nonsense. Yeah. I eat it up like it's candy. Yeah. And I get his cliffhands. Because I don't want to look at it.

[00:19:18] Donald Trump doesn't like being made fun of, as we all know. And so somebody was giving him a hard time about rambling at his rallies. And he says he doesn't ramble. He does what's called the weave, where he makes 10 or 12 different points and brings them all together for one solid. One solid. I mean, like it's mind blowing. I think people have orgasms at the end. I don't even know how it works. But it's so great. Anyways, what I was going to say is my weave is with all of this talk and the traditions. I hope your weave has the happy ending.

[00:19:46] The last two weeks are a great example. I hope it's blonde. Are a great example of everything we're talking about and the fruits thereof. You know? Like we've... We? But I'm fucking nailed it. The traditions we've created for our family and one of my favorite ones, and I know the kids love it, is going to Rosati's on Christmas Day. You know? And hanging out and having fun and spending the whole day.

[00:20:16] But that is... That's just like the picture of what happens when you do the hard work and we're trying to like behind the scenes. You know? We're apologizing to each other. We're trying to say, this is where I messed up. We're trying to see each other's perspective when it comes to something a child's done. That we're like, well, this is how I feel about it. And someone else is like, this is how I feel about it.

[00:20:40] But all of that stuff, it culminates together in what I've affectionately called the weave to our last couple of weeks where we had so much time together. And it feels effortless. You know? It feels like nothing's forced. It feels like we all want to be there. And we're having fun. And we're enjoying each other's company.

[00:21:02] And I think that sometimes we don't give ourselves the credit because we're so focused on just trying to get through the day sometimes. And everything we have to do individually and as a family. That we don't appreciate that. And I think we should all appreciate ourselves. You too, Jonah. For doing what we do all the time to create peace and happiness and love. And authentically. Not forced. You know? And doing our best to do it.

[00:21:30] Dude, I freaking love what you're saying. The weave. Because the weave is real. And it's so... We don't give ourselves credit. We're out here doing this shit and we really don't give each other high fives even. Like, take Christmas for example. What a beautiful thing that we show up. Let's just paint the picture. We arrive and Tiff.

[00:21:56] We walk in and it just smells like goddamn heaven. Yeah. Because there's joy. There's Christmas music. There's smells of bacon. And Tiff's like, make it. And then we start going and getting the stocking stuff. And Jake's helping everywhere and bringing the stocking stuff out. It's just like, we're all working together. We give... And to see the way that our children give each other affection.

[00:22:23] Every time we come together, everybody hugs everybody. It's beautiful. And I love it. And it's joyful. And it's authentic. And it's pure. And why? It's what you're saying. It's so important. We come together and we talk about hard things. We take accountability when we mess up. Our children take accountability when they mess up.

[00:22:49] And I have had a couple of experiences in the last couple weeks with some of our children where they absolutely own it and step up to it and say, I made a mistake and I know I can do better. And it's because we are creating an environment that is literally designed around accountability and showing up and being our best selves for each other.

[00:23:17] And I do think there's a lot to learn here for other families. It's extremely valuable what we are creating and what we are doing with hard work. And so I'm excited to be sharing it. But when I say we come together, you know, we have meetings, family meetings. And some of those meetings are with one child with all four parents. And some of them are with two kids and all four parents. And some of it's with everyone.

[00:23:42] And we talk about where we want to go and what we want to do before we bought a bunch of land. We got together as a family and we wanted to know how everyone felt about that. And if there's tension, we address it directly. You know, I've always told my children there is kindness in directness. And if we can be fully authentic and honest with each other and take accountability when we fuck up,

[00:24:07] then we can come together and our holidays and our traditions can truly be pure and enjoyable and authentic and fun. So I am proud of us. Thank you for bringing that attention. Me too. And just to piggyback on the piggyback, other people, and it's being like proud of the kids. Because people see the affection our children give one another. And they're like, wow, like your kids really like their siblings.

[00:24:36] And I'm like, well, yeah, duh. But other families aren't that way. You know what I mean? Like I was brought up where like we did kiss and hug. And like that was because that's how like my mom pushed it because of her Italian heritage. But you don't see that. Like you go to a restaurant or like a game or whatnot. And are you seeing Hublin's siblings hugging and high-fiving and enjoying one another's company? Not all the time. And like our kids genuinely do that.

[00:25:05] Like they're happy for each other. It's so much joy to see our kids loving each other the way they do. Supporting each other, you know? When someone goes through a breakup, they support each other. They hold space for each other. It's beautiful. They protect each other too. Like they know if one of their siblings is friends with or romantically with somebody who's not good for them, they voice it. You know? Like I've heard it. And they'll say it and give advice.

[00:25:30] Or someone gets treated badly by their significant other and they're ready to be right there with them. That's great. It reminds me of when I told Thomas, and I still regret telling Thomas that this kid was making fun of Anthony or Anna in like fourth grade or something. And he said, I'll press him. And that kid never made fun of Anna again. I can't remember who it was. I remember that. But they do. They look out for each other.

[00:25:56] And they just became aunts and uncles and were there for the sibling. And their baby. Oh, what a beautiful experience. It's the first time I saw that. It's so cute. It was. Yes. What a beautiful blessing to have a baby come into our life. Like I was telling my sister Bryn. No, I think I was telling Corey. You were there. Was it Corey? It is the cutest thing ever to see Jake be a grandpa.

[00:26:26] What? And to hold his baby. And to just be, you know, I mean, and we were just FaceTiming Journey right before we recorded. And she's grown so much. But, yeah, I mean, what a cool thing to experience as a family that now our family is growing a new generation. Yep. So awesome. I was just going to say, I feel like this has been a good discussion.

[00:26:49] And we can probably really keep talking about traditions and rituals and the importance of connecting and all of the things we do to stay close as a family. I feel like we could do a part two. Yeah. I feel like every subject we do is the tip of the iceberg. And that's why we end up doing new episodes where we're like delving back into other things we've talked about. And hopefully that's not too confusing. Are you guys okay? Are you with us? Okay. Are you still with us?

[00:27:19] Yeah. But it's fun every time. Yay. Well, thanks, everybody. This has been great. Yeah. Thanks. You're the best. All right. Bye. Thank you. For parents, nine kids, two houses. Didn't really want to talk to parents, nine kids. I'm queer. One thing's clear. There's no dysfunction here. For parents, nine kids, two houses.

[00:27:48] Didn't get some queer. One thing's clear. There's no dysfunction.