Episode 15: How we Keep the Romance Alive - Happy Valentine's Day!

[00:00:01] Four parents, nine kids, two houses, didn't really want to talk about this. Four parents, nine kids, I'm queer. One thing's clear, there's no dysfunction here. Four parents, nine kids, two houses, didn't really want kids, I'm queer. One thing's clear, there's no dysfunction.

[00:00:34] Yeah, welcome back everybody. What a week. What a week. It has been a week. The groundhog, Punxsutawney Phil, did make his debut. He saw his shadow, went right back down. Six more years of winter. Yes, I think that's what they said. February made me shiver. With every paper I delivered. That's so funny. What is it from? So great. Are you high? Probably.

[00:01:01] What else is going on in the world? What's going on in the air? Yeah. Oh, yeah. There is a lot going on in the air. That was a big week for our air traffic controller. I mean, it's crazy. I have an idea you guys. I only heard about two. Why don't we as a whole family go on an airplane tomorrow? Let's do it. Let's go Wednesday. Let's go Wednesday. Yes, I love that idea. It sounds like a thrill. Yeah. I don't know. You should have. YOLO.

[00:01:24] Yeah, we're taking a trip to Cascade, Idaho. When I got divorced however many years ago, I never thought that I would go spend four nights and four days at my ex-in-law's house. But I'm so excited. And it's like a winter wonderland out there. They just got a foot of snow. And yeah. Like in the last couple hours, they got a lot more snow than that.

[00:01:50] Yay! Crazy. That was wild. I'm excited. Well, what are we talking about today? Tiff? Custody. Yeah. 50-50. A spouse that doesn't want to see the children invading in on the other parents' time. That's a lot. That's a lot there. That's a big one for sure. That is a lot there. I didn't have custody. Like, I really have to be careful how I say things and then pause. Because last episode, I didn't have parents. And you guys jumped to conclusions.

[00:02:19] And this week you do? Yeah. But they don't want custody. Yeah. There wasn't a custody battle with my kids. Like, I moved out of state. My kids came with me. Gotcha. So, for us, it was like our custody agreement was kids went and lived with me. And then they spent their summers wherever Eric was living. So... And were you both fine with that? And... The first couple summers, I'm pretty sure it was just with me.

[00:02:48] And then finally, they would get... But they were still young. I remember when they were flying. But I didn't have that. And I don't want to say it wasn't difficult because it was very difficult. But I didn't have that where it's like, okay, they're going to Dad's house this weekend or this holiday. You know, we have to split the mornings with Dad, the afternoons with me. Like, they were just with me. Mm-hmm. So, I'm grateful for that time I got. But I'm sure that was very difficult on the kids because they didn't get to spend those holidays with their Dad.

[00:03:17] Mm-hmm. Absolutely. So... It's so tricky. Every situation is so different. So, it's like, we can't really sit here and be like, this is what you should do. You know, it's every situation is very different. But I think the most important thing is being aware of the ego in situations like this, which is really difficult.

[00:03:40] And also doing your very best to really objectively figure out what is best for the kids outside of your own needs. And that can be so tricky. It's a very emotionally heightened time, you know? Mm-hmm. And it wasn't just like driving an hour or two hours to go see their Dad. Like, he was in Pennsylvania, I was in Arizona. So, it was a flight. Wow.

[00:04:08] And again, like, I would have to sit down with both my kids and be like, do you resent me for that? You know, they're 20 and 15 now, so I don't know if there's resentment there or how they feel about it. But that's just how it worked for me. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it is difficult no matter what. Even if you feel like you're doing your best and doing great by everyone else. I think about the subject and it just brings me back to every other subject we've talked about, which is two things. Like, what is best for the kids?

[00:04:38] And I guarantee we weren't doing it well up front, you know? Like, it's a learning process just like everything else. And that's a really tough one when it comes to custody because that's a major affecting thing for everyone involved. And so, you know, in an ideal perfect world right from the get-go, just like all the other subjects, we're doing what's best for the kids and keeping them top of mind. But that wasn't always the case, that's for sure. You know, especially, you know, for me and my situation.

[00:05:08] And I think we can all, you know, agree to that to some extent. But it's, you know better, you do better, you know? And if there's anything that can be helpful to somebody else, like for me this is maybe like the biggest one, thinking about it. Because it's relationships with parents and kids, kids to kids, kids to other kids because other people are now joining the situation.

[00:05:35] And they have stepbrothers and sisters and new parents and grandmas and grandpas, you know? Like, it can be a whirlwind for everyone but a million times more for the kids. I think this is like the subject that really affects them the most. And I wish I would have known better, you know?

[00:05:53] It's a really weighted subject because whether it's a court ordered custody issue, you know, I think for the most part, for us four and the way custody probably a lot better than some families have to deal with. Like there's safety at risk where it's like, well, I don't want this parent to have custody because there's issues or their habits or whatnot.

[00:06:16] Like I feel like even though ours was not perfect for any of us, it really wasn't that bad considering what some families do have to go through. And it's one parent drastically wanting to have a safe environment for their child. And then you have to go to court and then a judge gets to decide, which not speaking poorly on the legal system, but a complete stranger is listening to you and other people deciding who your children get to spend their time with.

[00:06:46] And that is scary. You know, that's all you have no control what's going to happen. And that's terrifying. That was one thing that I was so afraid of is like getting, putting my kids in a position where they're being like in the court system, having to talk to a psychologist or those kinds of things.

[00:07:07] I think when I look back on the time where we were figuring out custody, I feel very grateful that Jake advocated for his parental rights. I think I did not have the wisdom or the maturity or intelligence or literally healing to recognize how important it is that both parents are involved.

[00:07:33] And I felt like I knew what was best and I wanted the majority of the time with my kids. I was a stay at home mom. It was all I knew. My kids were my entire world. If someone said, who are you? I would say, I am a mom. And that is all I am. That is how I, you know. And so just very grateful that Jake had that love and care and wisdom to say, no, I'm just as much a parent. And I deserve to be here.

[00:08:02] And I'm going to fight for, and he didn't have to fight. You know, I'm so grateful we stayed out of the courtroom. We, Jake and I went and filed our divorce papers together and we went to a mediator and it wasn't pretty. It was very emotional and difficult. Um, but I am grateful for a lot of aspects of that. And it was years of trying to figure it out.

[00:08:28] I did not agree with a lot of the things that were happening when I wasn't around. It was very difficult for me. And so I just think it's been a healing and learning and growing process. And a lot of the, the mutual understanding that Jake and I have now is literally because it was like, we faced a tragedy and we're like, oh my God, we have to figure this out. How to get along and be kind and share and value each other as parents.

[00:08:56] And, you know, it's been a journey and it's been very, very difficult, you know, but for anybody who's going through it now, those are the things I would want them to have an awareness of that I didn't. And that both parents are very important, even if you don't agree with some of the things that are happening. Um, and yeah. Thanks Jake. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate all that. Um, I think it's important.

[00:09:27] I don't think it ever really gets said, but I think it to myself all the time, you know, when, you know, divorce in my own life and, and, uh, how I'm evaluating it. I'm evaluating situations after the fact and divorce in other people's lives. And I mean, basically, you know, the overall consensus is my ex is fucking crazy. Like they're psycho. They do this wrong. They do this wrong. They do this wrong.

[00:09:54] And I'm always thinking to myself, like, how can you forget so easily that you used to be madly in love with this person? Like they are not like, not all of them in is lost. It's possible that everything that you were once in love with is completely gone and lost. Yeah, it's possible.

[00:10:15] But also, even though it's not working out, like there is the possibility of, of trying to remember like, okay, this is a person that I used to have 100% faith in 100% confidence in, and they were my person.

[00:10:32] And as far as parenting is concerned, I can use some of those memories from the past to give them the benefit of the doubt so that instead of us being enemies against each other, like, you know, you don't have to use it to rekindle your relationship. But you can use the past history of that person of like, okay, like, this use, this person used to be my rock.

[00:10:59] They used to be the bees knees, the cats meow, my everything. Like, can I harness, can I harness some of that to be able to communicate with them so that we can be on a kind and loving page with co-parenting?

[00:11:16] Yeah, I think in that what you're saying is what happens so much of the time is we're in a romantic relationship with somebody else, and we're hurting, you know, like maybe one person's hurting one person or it's both, you know, usually it's a two way street, you know. And what happens is when we decide, okay, I can't do this anymore, this doesn't work for me, or whatever it is that leads to that, decide to separate and divorce.

[00:11:42] We, so often, people just automatically take that same thing and put it on their children. Like, well, if they're not good for me, they can't be good for them, you know, and that's just not accurate. You know, like, the relationship between partners and the relationship from parent to child is a vastly different relationship. And it's really easy to just lump all the hard and difficult things that have happened between the two of you and make it about everyone.

[00:12:10] And it's just, and it's not, it's the exact opposite. It's not ever, I mean, you hear it all the time, like, you know, the whole stereotype or I remember being a kid and like, it's like, oh, you have to make sure the kids know it's not their fault. And I was like, that should just be obvious, you know, like, it just is that way. But that's not how it's treated by so many people going through divorce and separation. They lump it all together and think, no, like, that person's bad now, you know, and it's just not that way.

[00:12:37] And like we've discussed in the, in past podcasts about how it might be a good idea since the parents and the children are in such emotional turmoil. Like, can you really trust yourself in this situation? Like, everything is on high alert. Like, you're practically psycho and crazy.

[00:13:00] And like, and so I just brought up the, uh, the idea of having a trusted mentor, maybe a, maybe a neutral ground trusted mentor, somebody that both sides trust. Like, let's, let's listen, let's hear what these people have to say. You know, we care about them. We love them. We know that they have the children's best interest in at heart.

[00:13:25] And what's their opinion instead of thinking that us going through the most emotional turmoil of our lives that we're going to make the best decisions when it comes to custody. Absolutely. And definitely don't ever put that decision on your kids. Like, who do you want to live with, mom or dad?

[00:13:51] Yeah, that there, that's been a very real thing for a lot of kids where they're put in the position of like choosing between their parents. And, and that can be very toxic and dangerous too. And there are instances where it's just not safe. And that's not what we're talking about. You know, everyone knows there are scenarios where it's like, no, they really shouldn't be with that person. Like there's an addiction involved or there, you know, that's dangerous. You're the mom.

[00:14:18] I was thinking when you were talking about how all of us are like, like, ah, my ex is crazy and they're a psycho and whatever, you know. It reminds me of that it's always sunny meme where he's like conspiracy theory and like trying to prove whatever, you know. And it's like, that's who you become. You're like, no, look, look what they're doing. And everyone's like, you're the crazy person, bro. You know, you just have to take a step back and recognize everyone's doing their best.

[00:14:43] And I think the big part, like something that like Jake had said and something AJ said, and you may have said this in another one is like divorce. It feels like failure. You didn't pass the test. You didn't make it the long haul. And then to be emotionally and mentally like destroyed for who knows how long, because some people, it could be a decade after their divorce and they're still feeling a trauma about it.

[00:15:06] But then to have that pride and be like, OK, I'm not going to say I'm going to be the bigger person, but I'm going to be the bigger person. Swallow everything that happened because I have to do it's in the best interest of the kids. I don't know if pride, if there's a better word than pride, but everything that you go through and everything you have to question and mentally fix.

[00:15:31] Like, I think you have to swallow your pride and just do what's best, because how else can you get through it? How can you move on? Swallowing the pride. If you're standing in that, it's impossible to see what your kids need, you know? Yeah. Because everything comes from a perspective and place of I know what's going on. Couldn't be further from the truth, because seriously, you're in such survival mode during these moments that we're talking about. And it's crazy.

[00:15:59] It's like the last person you should trust is yourself. I think a lot of what I have learned in the last few years is coming to mind a lot where I just wish I would have had a meditation practice. I wish I would have had an awareness of when I'm dysregulated in my nervous system so that I can pause and pull back and say, okay, this is not going to give me an accurate reading of reality right now.

[00:16:29] I need to sit with this. I need to go deeper into this. I need to feel these feelings. Finding stillness so that you can truly tune in and actually feel all the way through the failure feelings, the depression, the sadness, the new levels of loneliness, the frustration.

[00:16:48] I just wish I would have understood how important it is to not keep running and distracting myself from all of that, but to go into it and to feel it and to really, I don't know, get in tune with myself.

[00:17:03] And, you know, if I met someone who was seeking help from me and going through a divorce, that's where we would start is a meditation practice and self-love, self-care, you know, things like that, encouraging people to really feel their feelings. What you're expressing and explaining is the antidote for what you naturally are when you're in that situation and you're in that survival mode.

[00:17:30] Because it's like when you're in survival mode, you're clinging to safety. If you're in physical survivor mode, you're just what's going to keep me from dying? What's going to keep me from like I need to survive this? When you're in emotional safety mode, the most common thing I think we all do is shut down anything outside of ourselves. We say no, like I know what's going on. I'm going to do this. I'm going to make sure it happens the right way and all these things.

[00:17:56] And what meditation does, a practice or any kind of stillness, you know, like purposeful, intentional being with yourself and stillness in that way is it takes you out of that. It forces you to feel those difficult things because that's what you're doing. You don't want to feel hurt. You don't want to feel like things are going to be awful. You don't want to worry about what's going to happen, you know, with the kids and your whole family.

[00:18:18] And so you just get really super strong and aggressive, you know, and having that meditation practice and slowing down and being quiet is it opens up the things that we're kind of scared of feeling. But that's what you need to feel in order to be the best possible parent.

[00:18:35] Yes, and in having, in finding that, feeling your feelings and having compassion for yourself, it really opens the space to have compassion for the person you're going through this with as well. I remember one time in Harriman, and I certainly, when I was getting divorced from Jake, I definitely did not have a meditation practice or a stillness practice.

[00:19:00] But I do remember allowing myself to feel some feelings sitting on, laying on the couch in my living room and crying and feeling so much sadness and all of this. And what that did is open up, like, a new perspective on what this must be like for Jake. And I, you probably don't remember, but I remember calling you and having all of these apologies of, like, I'm sorry that I was this and I'm sorry I was that.

[00:19:28] I was just, like, feeling my own feelings allowed me to realize he's feeling these feelings too, you know. And so, just giving ourselves self-care literally helps us be compassionate for other people. And recognizing it's not a one-time thing. Like, you might do that one night on the couch and be, like, vulnerable and open up and really try to help heal. And then that might feel like, what did I just do? Like, it's scary. It's whatever. Yeah, yeah, you know.

[00:19:57] Like, it's a practice. Totally. Meditation is a practice. Like, you don't just figure it out and be like, oh, I've got the answers now. You're messing up left and right and still doing it wrong. It's just acknowledging when you've done it wrong. But, like, why is this not the common fix that our society knows if it actually works? Trauma.

[00:20:24] Instead, you know, instead of learning how to meditate and actually make it through things like this, we're, you know, going to happy hours and numbing the situation. We're running, we're numbing, we're distracting, we're doing anything other than going to go. You don't have to sit with those scary feelings that make you feel unsafe. That's really all it comes down to. Oh, the margs. Nothing will heal your family faster than happy hour every day after work.

[00:20:52] And accountability, I think, even in this custody process, if you can find some things that you could have done better, could acknowledge, just throw them a bone, you know. Give them something to help meet in the middle somewhere. Like, you know, gratitude. I really appreciate you being on time with the kids today. Thank you so much. The kids need to see you being kind with each other. Give each other a hug. You know, like, go out of your way.

[00:21:21] You said last week, find something that you can agree with. Agree with. Exactly. Love it. Yeah. So, I don't know. I wish I would have done all those things better. What about, like, fighting for a time, like, if it's a holiday? You know what I mean? If it's not legally drawn up by a court order stating, like, how do you... Because, again, I didn't have that. And my parents divorced. Like, we were already grown up. It's not like you have to go to mom's.

[00:21:50] You have to go to dad's. But, like, how do you battle that in a kind way that's not ripping the kids apart? It's... Oh, sorry. Go ahead. I wish that we would have just followed the advice of our regular at our restaurant, Rosati's. You know? Because she was telling us about it a few weeks ago. Mm-hmm. She's like, you know, I got divorced and I don't want to make her sound older than she really is.

[00:22:18] Like, 40 years ago she got divorced or something like that. And she said even in that time she was being bossy towards the ex and said, we're going to spend all the holidays together. Like, it's not about us. It's not about our new families. It's about these kids. Like, if we can get along and bring our new partners with us, then great.

[00:22:42] But if that's not going to work out, you and I are going to be here with our kids. And that's how it's going to be. Like, because they are the top priority. And if everybody could do that, just be like, yeah. One angle from the kid's perspective is it kind of sucks because then you don't get two Christmases. Two stalkings. Lame.

[00:23:08] Yeah, they really can't hit you against each other as much when you're friends. It's so easy. But I loved what she was saying. And ultimately I wish that, you know, and we did do it a lot, but we didn't do it every year. Yeah. You know, and I wish that we would have. Just like, okay, all the holidays, you know, we're not splitting Christmas, you know, from at noon. Right.

[00:23:33] You know, like Christmas break up until Christmas day at noon and then the other parent gets them the second half. Like, we're doing it. We're doing it together. And if our new significant others are down, great. If they're not, then we will see them later. I think it's really important to be flexible as much as possible with, you know, parenting time.

[00:24:00] And also to never use your parenting time as leverage in an argument like, nope, you can't have them this time because you've pissed me off here and here. Exactly. It's a really common thing. But I feel like it's so important to say, hey, me and my partner want to take the kids on this vacation, but I know that would cut into two of your days.

[00:24:28] Is there any way I can add those two days to your time on the next time? These kinds of things. When we're so fucking mad at our ex, then it's just like, no, I'm not. You know, you don't want to give them anything. And so if you can look and see where can I give that does not hurt me and it does not hurt my children, where can I be helpful?

[00:24:52] That might motivate your ex to also be workable and flexible and compromise and, you know, and really to have an awareness about never leverage with the parenting time.

[00:25:07] I love that and it reminds me of my dad, his advice because all of our parents, when we got married at our wedding luncheon, were getting up and giving advice to the newlywed couple. And his advice was always be nicer than you have to be. Love that. And when you think about it, it really doesn't change when you get divorced.

[00:25:34] Like if you're being nicer than you have to be, then what other option does the other side have except to follow suit and try to be a good person too? Yes. It's just, it's just hard to be the first person that does it. It is hard. And when you, but if you do respond to negativity with negativity, you're creating more negativity. Yes. And it's just an explosion. Yeah. I think too, I'm just processing this right now, so we'll see how it sounds.

[00:26:03] But I think that it's super important before you start getting into these things where you're deciding custody or where, you know, like you're really moving on into divorce when possible. Because again, there are situations where I'm sure this isn't possible. But when possible, you have to get together first and compromise to be on the same page. And that's the hardest part probably because you're, that's probably the height of your like, I'm done with this person, you know, literally.

[00:26:31] And so getting together and getting on the same page, you can't be on the same page if you're reading two different books. So if you're both trying really hard, but you're coming at it from completely different angles of I'm right and I'm right, then you'll never get anywhere. You really do have to be, you're going to have to make some concessions. And you're going to have to, the other person's going to have to make some concessions if you're really going to get to a place where you can work as a team together.

[00:27:00] And if you can do that, the rest of it will flow so much more naturally because even though it will be difficult and many bumps in the road, you're committed and have agreed to, okay, this is what we're doing. And, you know, we're doing our best and we can adjust and whatever. But you're just, even the act of compromising is a huge part of all of it. Being able to say, okay, I don't really feel that that's the best way to do it, but I say it's okay to do it your way. Let's try it that way or whatever it might be, you know. I love it.

[00:27:30] And if you're struggling with that and it doesn't seem possible, what if you figured out who your ex's most trusted, confidant person that they respect and love convince them of our podcast and get them to get your ex to listen to it. There you go. That is it.

[00:27:57] We actually respect, get them, get your ex to promise to listen to our podcast and they'll learn all these things on their own. You're welcome. That's all you need. What can I say except you're welcome. We watch Married at First Sight, which I feel like we've talked about on here before. And it's fascinating. You guys have a Super Bowl square for it. We should. I don't know why we don't. Oh, we don't. We absolutely need to. We hyperanalyze throughout the whole thing. It takes us about four hours to get through this.

[00:28:23] It's fascinating because more than any other relationship love show, it gets down and it gets real. I mean, they're together a couple months before they're deciding if they want. They literally meet each other, see each other for the first time at the altar and they get married. But they've been matched by experts and it's this whole thing or whatever. But what was I saying with that? Oh, no. I don't know where you're going with this story. That's what I want to hear.

[00:28:45] We've been watching Married at First Sight and to your point about having that trusted third party or other people. We were just watching an episode, I think, last night where this couple was having a really hard time about a disagreement about religion. One of them is agnostic. One of them is Christian. And the guy was Christian and he was saying that it's his belief that if she doesn't accept Jesus, that she'll be in hell. He's like, I'll still love you, but you won't be in hell. Yeah, he's like, I love you and we can have a great life together.

[00:29:14] But after this, she'll be in hell. And she's like, well, that doesn't make me feel great or whatever. He's crying. They even talk to an expert and they're still struggling afterwards or whatever. And then he talks to her best friend on a Zoom call. And this best friend who knows her in and out is helping him understand this is what she's worried about, dude. She's not worried about whether she even goes to heaven or hell. She just wants to know that you're asking her to be open-minded. She wants you to be open-minded and whatever.

[00:29:42] And it got him to a point where he's like, yeah, okay, I can do that. I don't like that. We were like, this is what Jake's talking about with a mutual objective third party. They stole your idea. Good job, Abe. I remembered it. You did. Thank you. It's hard. I don't think I ever actually did it. I never actually reached out to him. There were a couple of fights that we had in the past where I was like, if I only just call Chris like that. I would just call him and convince him that everything would be okay.

[00:30:12] Yeah, right. Chris, I'll never agree. I'll be like, bitch, shit. There were so many times where she's like, Chris likes you so much and I'm so tired of it. He always agrees with AJ. He always agrees with AJ. Not that we get him involved very often. But he will 100% of the time be against me because I'm his sister. So it didn't help. And I will always disagree with him. That's what I'm saying. It helps me feel better. Love you, Chris.

[00:30:42] Oh, man. We need a Chris and Leo visit. Yes, we really do. I'm already ready to go back to Albuquerque. I love Albuquerque. Thanks, guys. That was great. Yeah. Thank you so much. And we've mentioned this a couple times, but if you have any specific questions or we've mentioned it to each other. I don't know if we've actually brought it up.

[00:31:05] But if you have any specific questions about divorce, about navigating co-parenting, custody, even just parenting, we would love to hear from you. You can comment on our YouTube video. You can send us a message. What's our email address? NoDysfunctionHere at gmail.com. NoDysfunctionHere at gmail.com. So let us know if we can help in any way with anything that you might be wondering. Thanks for being here, everybody. Love you. Love you. Bye. Bye.

[00:31:36] Four parents, nine kids, two houses. Didn't really want to talk about this. Four parents, nine kids, I'm queer. One function here. Four parents, nine kids, two houses. About this. Four parents, nine kids, I'm queer. One thing's clear. There's no...